PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:00:00) Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano, what is your pleasure, sir?
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:09) Mr. President and Mr. Presiding Officer, before I ask to be allowed to ask a question, can I just follow up yung kay Senator Marcos, including the ruling yesterday? Just in the interest of all Senator-Judges being able to follow closely, especially kami sa first row kasi medyo nagkaka-stiff-neck na kami. Mahirap tingnan yung TV so…
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:00:35) Maglalagay na po kami ng TV sa harap ng lamesa… inaudible.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:38) I think all of us own an iPad or a tablet. I don’t know what the solution is, but if the secretariat or the clerk of court, the office of the clerk of court can work with our staff…
(0:00:59) Just to give you an example for today, if you look at the impeachment complaint on page 19, for example, it says that the affidavit we were looking for kanina, footnote number 72 is this one. In the impeachment complaint, it’s found on Annex G. So this is Annex G.
(0:01:32) If you look at Annex G, it is a certification, not an affidavit. Okay. So where do you find the affidavit mentioned in the impeachment complaint? You actually find it in Volume 14, Annex FFFFFFFF-GGGGGGGG. So before I can even say that…
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:02:06) That’s FFFFFF to GGGGGGG.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:08) Yes. So even before we finish saying that, Your Honor, Mr. Presiding Judge, medyo mahirap… to further complicate, the Annex S, when delivered to us was labeled annexes, and then when it was pre-marked, iba na yung marking.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:02:26) That is correct.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:29) To clarify, I’m not asking both the prosecution and defense to give us any documents in advance that will prejudice their presentation or their rebuttal. I do understand that it has to be offered, but to speed things up and to make sure we understand. In the same manner that they’re asking the witness to examine it, maybe we can be given a copy to examine at the same time, whether digital or actual copy. I don’t want to impose upon them to print 24 copies. But again, anyway, it’s Wednesday. We have Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday for our staff and the clerk of court to meet.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:03:09) I think we already have a solution for you, Senator-Judge Cayetano, as well as for Senator-Judge Marcos. We will be furnishing the parties either via soft copy to your respective iPads or laptops, or we will…
(0:03:23) and to their official emails as well, kayo na po magprint ng hard copy, ng list of evidences as pre-marked by the prosecution na ipe-present for Article 4. And we will do this by article. However, in so far as I said, the documents presented by the counsel for Respondent, these have not yet been pre-marked.
(0:03:49) But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking for a copy from the counsel for Respondent for our guidance, whether or not the same will be offered without prejudice to respond to the counsel for Respondent deciding on whether or not they will offer it at the appropriate time.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:04) On that point, Mr. Presiding Officer… even if it’s pre-marked, if it will prejudice their presentation, I don’t mind it be given in real time. And same, if it’s being used on cross or recross on rebuttal and hindi ito na pre-marked, as long as it’s real time, para lang we can process it. If not, we have to review afterwards and it messes up our preparation for the hearing the next day.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:04:30) Is that possible for the parties once the roles are reversed? May I get a response from the counsel for respondent?
DEFENSE ATTY. NARVASA:
(0:04:36) Your Honor, first we’ll clarify, everything that was showed today was pre-marked by the respondent.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:04:44) That’s not my understanding because the DOJ letter you pre-marked is different from the DOJ letter that we have pre-marked. But we’ll verify. So everything was pre-marked?
DEFENSE ATTY. NARVASA:
(0:04:54) Yes, Your Honor.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:04:55) But you presented a document that was not pre-marked either by the prosecution or the defense. Walang marking eh.
DEFENSE ATTY. NARVASA:
(0:05:04) I presented all that…
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:05:04) So if it was pre-marked, it’s our lookout. Then kindly then there’s no problem furnishing the Senator-Judges with a copy of the same.
DEFENSE ATTY. NARVASA:
(0:05:12) We have no problem with that, your Honor.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:05:14) Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano’s concern has no basis if it was all pre-marked, apparently. It was our oversight. Counsel for the prosecutors, would that be possible?
PROSECUTOR
(0:05:25) Yes.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:05:25) To furnish it? I think what counsel for respondent did earlier helped us out a lot. Plastering it on the screens, whatever affidavit.
(0:05:34) You were presenting. I think counsel for the prosecutors should do the same.
PROSECUTOR
(0:05:37) Yes…
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:05:39) Hindi naman bawal mag kopyahan dito eh. Okay lang. Senator-Judge Cayetano.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:44) Thank you. And just to clarify, the two minutes is the question, not including the answer?
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:05:49) You have two minutes if you want to start with asking questions.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:53) If they ask to repeat the question, please don’t count that. Two minutes is long with short questions, but many of us want to get to the bottom of it and end up only asking one or two questions. So just a little bit of liberality.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:06:06) We will be lenient, Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:12) A question for the witness and maybe to put all of us in check, I don’t mind if any of the counsel says na medyo hindi maayos yung question. I mean, given what happened yesterday and today, and there are questions that could prejudice the case either way. As long as we call each other out respectfully.
(0:06:36) To both counsels, you cannot correct a Senator-Judge, but I don’t mind if you think it prejudices. That’s your duty to your client. So this isn’t the start of the two minutes yet. Magandang hapon, Mr. Witness. Medyo mahaba na yung pag upo mo jaan but allow me a few questions. Yung circumstance lang. So paano nagsimula yung imbestigasyon na na-involved ka? Where from the start or hindi? Written instructions ba ito o sinabi? Or may imbestigasyon tayo? Just konting clarity paano nag-umpisa yung specific investigation, and was it based on the November 3 video, tama ba?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:07:16) November 23, Your Honor. Okay. It all started, I received a phone call, sir, from my executive officer that there is a video wherein there is a statement given by the Vice-President which is classified as threat and I was tasked and assigned to investigate the case, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:36) Okay. So basically, ganun yung pagkasabi, na I’m tasking you to look at the video, investigate.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:07:42) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:44) Were you working alone or with a group?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:07:46) With a group, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:46) NBI group?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:07:47) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:49) And was this, is there an interagency also or just purely NBI?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:07:55) I don’t have personal knowledge. Maybe our chief, sir, has the knowledge on that, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:58) That’s all I asked for naman, yung personal knowledge. Ano ang… So, pakiulit mo yung sinabing… how exactly sinabi sayo na tignan mo yung video, imbestigahan mo or may statement?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:08:14) To be specific, sir, as far as I remember. May statement si Vice President regarding the November 23 press conference kung saan may pag babanta na naganap, paki imbestigahan.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:32) Paki imbestigahan. So ganun ka, General. May pag babantang naganap, paki imbestigahan.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:08:37) Yes po.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:37) And you proceeded by watching the video.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:08:39) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:40) And when you watched the video, you got to the part na may pagbabanta.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:08:44) No, Your Honor. I first don’t know which part of that.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:50) So you watch the whole video, of course.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:08:52) First, the clipping’s Your Honor. Then I look for the whole video, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:56) Then you watch the whole video?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:08:58) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:59) And thank you for your honesty. So after the clipping, tapos the whole video, what did you do next? You reported or you made your recommendations? I don’t understand the process kasi…
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:08) Upon identifying the whole video, I informed my executive officer that I identified the video, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:15) And then yung sinabi mo yesterday, then you started looking for patterns. That’s why you looked at yung dating videos ni Vice President.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:22) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:24) So you started investigating the threat against the President, the First Lady, and the former Speaker of the House.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:30) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:30) Did you investigate the threat against the Vice-President?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:34) We tried, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:36) How did you try?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:37) It is included in our letter to the Vice President, Your Honor. That’s why we’re inviting her to proceed to our office to investigate the threats to her life, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:47) How about the vlogger who asked her about Oplan or whatever they call that Romanov? Did you invite them?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:54) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:58) And did they testify?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:09:58) The Princess Maui did not appear, your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:01) Did not appear. Did you also look for previous videos that are threatening to the Vice President?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:10:10) We looked on the Romanov part, Your Honor, but we identified a different person who first mentioned the Romanov, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:19) Did you coordinate with the PSG?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:10:23) I have no personal knowledge, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:25) You yourself?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:10:26) Yes, Your Honor. Maybe our Chief, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:28) But you are aware that the primary responsibility of protecting both the President and the Vice-President is the PSG?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:10:34) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:35) So isn’t it fair to say that any investigation against a threat to the First Family, the President, or the Vice-President, you would normally ask the PSG if they received any threat?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:10:50) I have no personal knowledge, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:51) I’m asking, hindi ba normal sa investigation kung sino yung primary agency na taga-protekta na lumalaban dun sa threat ay tatanungin natin?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:11:03) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:11:04) So bakit hindi tinanong ng NBI ang PSG? Or in your case, why didn’t you ask the PSG?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:11:13) Maybe it can be answered by the chief, your honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:11:15) No, I’m not. I will ask your chief also. I’m asking you. When they said, look at this, you looked at other videos, you tried to get Princess Maui, you tried to get the Vice-President, but you didn’t contact the PSG for the first lady, for the president. And for all you know, the PSG will tell you right there and there, the threat is real, or the PSG will say political lang yan.
(0:11:38) Both the Vice-President and the President are protected by the PSG. So why wasn’t… So nakalimutan lang or wala sa procedure nyo or…
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:11:48) Your Honor, there’s already a statement from the National Security Council, Your Honor, that it is an active threat, Your Honor. That’s why we start investigation.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:11:57) Yes, and the primary group that will know if it’s an active threat is the PSG. So, if this was the United States, it will be the secret service. So, whether the FBI or the CIA, state troopers, the federal marshals, kung sino man mag-iimbestiga, parati nilang tatanungin yung secret service. So, I’m just curious why we did not ask the PSG input.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:12:22) Can we wind up, Senator Cayetano, Senator-Judge Cayetano?
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:12:25) So, my last question is, how did you characterize the threat of the Vice President to the President? Given that the ang exact words niya “Huwag kang mag alala, ma’am sa security ko kasi may kinausap na akong tao. Sinabi ko sa kaniya, kapag pinatay ako.”
(0:12:48) So that’ll be fair to you and not vague. Did that phrase, kapag pinatay ako, have any bearing in your investigation?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:12:58) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:13:03) And what was that bearing or thoughts in your mind?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:13:05) First of all po, doon sa statement may nakausap na po. It already took place before pa yung mangyari yung meeting…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:13:11) Excuse me, I’m not talking about yung may kinausap na para pumatay. Ang sinasabi ko yung sinabi niya na pag pinatay ako.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:13:19) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:13:20) How did that affect your investigation?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:13:23) There is a condition na kapag pinatay siya. But as we can see, it’s only applicable if there is only two parties. The statement makes a loophole wherein a third party can use that na kapag namatay si VP, mae-execute niya yung statement ni VP na may kinausap na siya. Without the participation of the one mentioned, the President, the First Lady, and the Speaker of the House, your honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:13:53) That’s fair. But what I’m saying is that in your reports, did you characterize it as a conditional threat? Because kung hindi naman siya pinatay, the logical implication is that there’s no threat against the… So I’m not saying it’s not illegal, immoral to contract a killer. I’m just trying to follow the logic. So ‘pag sinabi kong, pakukulong kita, Mr. Witness ‘pag nagsinungaling ka under oath, then it’s actually not a threat. It’s a legal…
(0:14:25) I’m just telling you the law, di ba? Pero pag sinabi kong pag hindi ka sumunod sa akin, anohin kita? So, that’s my last question lang. So, how did you characterize that? It wasn’t a conditional in your mind? Because may kinausap na.
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:14:40) Even with or without sir, it’s still considered a threat as long as the person…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:14:46) I have no doubt there. I’m just asking, is it a conditional threat?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:14:54) Based on our affidavit, sir, I believe it’s conditional.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:15:00) Based on your affidavit?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:15:01) Affidavit.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:15:02) But your initial assessment, yung personal mo as an investigator, this is an investigation of the whole NBI, but yung personal mo?
WITNESS NBI CALILUNG:
(0:15:09) The threat is absolute, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:15:10) Okay. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:15:13) Thank you, Senator-Judge Cayetano.
