PRESIDING OFFICER ESCUDERO:
(0:00:00) Senate-Judge Cayetano may proceed with his interjections. He has two minutes. You may proceed, sir, when you’re ready.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:04) Good afternoon, Mr. Witness Director, Attorney Matibag, schoolmate.
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:00:09) Good afternoon, sir, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:10) Just on that point, ni Senator Bam, I understand as a law enforcer, as an investigator, you have to take all threats seriously. I’ll ask you the same questions I asked the two NBI officers, and I do understand they were not under your supervision during that time, because doon pa sila kay Director Santiago, no?
(0:00:37) I won’t ask all the questions, but you did review the whole video or just the portions relevant to the statement of the Vice-President, no joke, no joke, noong November 23?
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:00:50) Your Honor, napanood ko po yung video but you’re correct. I focus mainly on the issue that is being… inaudible.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:56) So simple question. Paano naging process kung anong parts ng video at ng statement niya ang paniniwalaan mo or ng task force? So it’s not personal. I mean, if you were in the task force or as you said, you created the task force now at duty niyo yung safety ng high government officials. Anong process niyo kung anong parts ng video ang paniniwalaan niyo at hindi? Nang statements niya ah, that’s what I meant.
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:01:22) Well, ang ginawa po natin diyan yung konteksto nang kaniyang sinabi na humanap siya ng papatay at inutos niya na papatayin ang tatlong indibidwal at yun po ay pumayag na papatay at sinabi pa niya na no joke, doon pa lamang po ay namin na pong nakita na yung atin pong hinahanap po na mga pwede na pong mga pananagutan sa batas.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:47) Well as an appointee of this government, as a lawyer, as an NBI director, I see your point and I get that.
(0:01:54) But what I meant is that before that statement, sabi kasi niya, kung papatayin ako, I mean, the record will bear out naman yung eksaktong sinabi niya. So this is my paraphrase. But ang pagkaintindi ko sinabi niya, kung papatayin ako, ito yung tatlong papatayin mo. And ang impression ko, pinagbibintangan niya yung tatlo na may plot against her. So, yun ang tanong ko dun sa two previous NBI directors. If you’re gonna believe that she contracted or talked to, talked to, may kausap, kausap, siya, if you’re gonna believe that may kausap siya at papapatay yung tatlo, will you not believe the previous nung sinabi niyang kung ako naman ang papatayin?
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:02:38) Hindi po ganun. Sapagkat kung titignan nga po natin yung kaniyang mismong pagbabanta at saamin po sa ngayon, yung atin pong task force na nagiimibestiga ay malinaw po na ang tinitignan ay kung ano na ang nangyari dahil doon sa pagbabanta. At sinasabi nga po namin, dahil po doon sa pagbabanta, ito po’t umabot na doon na po sa level na ang national security, nataya na po, nakompromiso na. Sapagkat marami na pong lumalabas [na] tuloy tuloy na pagbabanta, so doon na po natin ito tinitignan.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:10) In the same video, he mentioned massive corruption. But wala pa dyan kasi yung ‘mahiya [naman] kayo speech’ at flood control investigation. So, same question, Director. Naintindihan ko, yun yung pinaniwalaan nyo. May kausap siya, no joke, no joke. Pero ang question ko, paano yung proseso niyo or yung naging thinking niyo na itong ipapapatay yung Presidente [ay] pinaniniwalaan ko, pero itong siya ang papatayin [ay] hindi ko paniniwalaan, at itong graft and corruption [ay] hindi ko rin paniniwalaan. What’s the process there?
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:03:44) Well, ang proseso po jaan ay tinignan naman natin doon sa pagbabanta niya kung sa grave threat yung paguusapan natin, alam naman po natin na yung threat na yan ay absolute dahil andoon naman po yung elemento eh.
(0:03:57) Doon naman po sa sinasabi namin na tuloy-tuloy na pag iimbestiga dahil ito nga po’y umabot na sa level nang naaapektuhan ang national security, we take into context yung mismong sinabi niya na meron siyang kinausap at yung kanyang kinausap ay pumayag. Yung pong kanyang sinasabi na kung papatayin ako, that is supposed to be na statement niya sa amin pong pananaw just to cover yung kanyang pagsasabi na siya’y may kinausap para patayin ang ating Pangulo.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:28) Okay, I won’t argue with you. Yun yung proseso nyo. But in the meantime, there were three statements. Massive corruption. Kung papatayin siya, patayin. So, focusing dun sa patayin yung tatlo kung papatayin siya, in the meantime, tumutoo yung massive corruption, lumabas afterwards. So, just one other point. At the beginning of the prosecution’s questions to you, and I think the Defense had a question about what can you investigate. Can you repeat your answer? As an NBI, as the NBI director and the NBI can investigate, did you say all crimes or yung mga crimes…?
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:05:05) Lahat po ng mga pumapasok sa amin na mga krimen ay amin pong pwedeng imbestigahan motu proprio. Ganoon din po yung mga krimen na mayroon pong nagreklamo na araw-araw na may pumunta sa aming tanggapan para magreklamo. Ito po’y aming inimbestigahan at meron din pong mga iniimbestigahan kami na inutos po ng Department of Justice and by the very nature, under the Constitution po ng Office of the Ombudsman, they can delegate the National Bureau of Investigation to…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:37) So as a general rule, you can investigate any crime motu proprio?
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:05:41) More than the investigation of the crime, it’s also the protection of our nationals. Tsaka po syempe, siguraduhing na-promote ang ating demokrasya ay hindi nakokompromiso.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:54) But sa investigation lang, so you can investigate any crime?
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:05:56) Tama po.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:56) Isn’t that against the Republic Act 10867? The statute of power, the act reorganizing and modernizing the National Bureau of Investigation. Sabi dito sa inyong Section 4, the NBI shall have the following powers and functions. Undertake and investigate the detection of crimes and offenses enumerated under Section 5.
(0:06:22) Section five, my enumeration, human trafficking cases in all airports, extrajudicial, extra-legal killings committed by state security forces against media practitioner’s activities, killings of justices and judges, violation of 100175, otherwise known Cyber Crime Prevention Act, cases against Inter-Agency Anti-Graft Coordinating Council (IAAGCC) and violations of the Anti-Dummy law.
(0:06:47) Tapos, cases involving threats, security assaults against person of the President, Vice-President, Senate President, Speaker of the House, Chief Justices. Walang congressman, senators, unlike judges, lahat. Transnational crimes pursuant to existing international agreements, identification of dead victims in case of mass fatalities, incidents causes by natural disaster, and violation of commercial, economic, financial, white collar crimes… Inaudiblel… law.
(0:07:16) So, exclusive yung enumeration. Then, provided, however, if that the President or Secretary of Justice may direct the NBI to undertake investigation of any crime when public interest so requires. So, hindi ba limited ang pwede niyong imbestigahan except that ang DOJ at President ang pwede mag-atas?
(0:07:38) That’s my last question.
PRESIDING OFFICER ESCUDERO:
(0:07:39) Yes. Kindly wind up. The witness may answer.
WITNESS MATIBAG:
(0:07:41) Yes. Yung pong ating listahan na yan, tama po, nanda-diyan. Subalit, hindi naman po sinasabi na nalilimita diyan ang aming pong pag-imbestiga. Sapagkat malinaw po ang mandato ng NBI that we are the primary investigating body. Yun lamang nga po, merong mga kaso kung ito’y bumagsak sa jurisdiction halimbawa ng PNP na kanilang iniimbestigahan, we can still help and coordinate at the same way, na kung kami yung nag iimbestiga, ang PNP ay pwede rin pong tumulong.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:10) Director, if that’s your interpretation, that goes against what they taught us in law school, na pag-exclusive yung enumeration, you cannot add. And at the end of the enumeration of Section 5, nakalagay nga dito, however, the President and Secretary of Justice may direct you to undertake investigations of any crime.
(0:08:30) Why do they have to say any crime if you can do it any crime, if you can investigate any crime after all? It seems that you’re expanding your jurisdiction by yourself.
NBI MATIBAG:
(0:08:42) Well, we’ve been doing po yan sapagkat we have also our primary role to make sure that law and order is being promoted through the NBI din po.
PRESIDING OFFICER ESCUDERO:
(0:08:52) Senator Cayetano can avail of the second round later or tomorrow, since I believe Attorney Matibag, Director Matibag, forgive me, will still be here for the continuation…
