PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:00:00) Thank you, Mr. President. Noted and underwritten the records. Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano is recognized. You have two minutes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:06) Mr. President, susundan ko na yung kay Senator Win, Senate President. Good afternoon, Mr. Witness. So, deretsohin ko na, no? So, what we’re trying to figure out here kasi is, are you really investigating…
(0:00:23) Whether may threat kay VP Sara and whether she threatened the individuals mentioned, including the president, or are you only investigating the video and finding kung meron siyang crime? So I asked Agent John Mark Calilung, hindi daw niya kinausap ang PS… sabi ko PSG, pero PSC na sila ngayon, di ba? Presidential Security Command. So did you speak to the Presidential Security Command about the threat on the president?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:00:50) Your Honor, in terms of correspondence between the Presidential Security Command at yung NBI, ang makakasagot po niyan yung director. Kasi hindi ko alam kung may usapan po sila. Meron po kasi kaming tinatawag na need-to-know basis. Ang focus lang po namin…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:04) The problem with your answers, witness, is that kung yan ang sagot mo parati, edi hindi mo inimbestigahan ng husto.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:10) Hindi po…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:11) Because you didn’t get the information from your intelligence. You did not get your information from the task force. You did not get your information from the presidential security group. Did you talk to the CIDG? May you answer first. Did you talk to the CIDG?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:24) No, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:26) No. But nag-imbestiga rin sila, ‘di ba?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:31) I think so.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:32) So, yun din yung tanong nga ng Senate President. Kung iniimbestigahan niyo talaga yung buo at kayo ang head at kayo dapat ang mag-imbestiga, bakit hindi nyo kinausap yung mga ibang nag-imbestiga? Baka may alam sila na hindi [niyo alam].
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:45) Yung usapan po na yan, it’s a matter of intelligence. Hindi ko alam kung may usapan sila o kung wala silang usapan with the director, with the intelligence service, your honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:56) Yeah, I’ll take that answer, but I think at least alam niyo yung nasa isip namin and what we want clarified. Secondly, sir, all of you, yung apat, you signed the February 10, February 2025 NBI affidavit of investigation. Tama po ba, di ba?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:14) Yes, Your Honor, our affidavit of investigation.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:55) Tapos kasama dito yung verification niyo. Basically saying that based on the records, tama tong lahat.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:21) Verification ng ano po, Your Honor?
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:25) Sa dulo, nag-sign kayo ng verification.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:27) Verification of non-forum shopping, Your Honor?
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:29) Yes. And that, aside from non-forum shopping, give me some latitude to explain the question. We read and understood its contents and the allegations therein are true based on authentic records.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:44) Yes, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:44) So may mali ba dito, factually? Wala. Na-review mo naman ito, no?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:49) May konting typo dyan, which is normal naman…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:53) Hindi typo, factual.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:56) So far as I’m concerned, lahat will…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:58) Sino ba ‘tong nag-prepare?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:59) Team po, ang team po naman yun with the…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:01) Tapos pinapirma sa inyo?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:03) Hindi ho. Kami ho nagtulong-tulong mag-draft ng affidavit of investigation, kung ano yung legal basis namin. And then we agree and we concluded na ito yun, ito yun, ito yun.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:13) Then someone typed it up, then you signed. I ask this because nung tinanong ko kay Agent Mark John Calilung, sabi niya, dito nakalagay conditional, pero tingin niya, absolute. You answered the same thing. It’s absolute, pero dito nakalagay conditional.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:30) The utterances itself, Your Honor, is what we called event-based condition, ang classification namin.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:38) Okay.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:38) Yun yung utterances, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:40) I’ll take that answer. I think mas factual yun. But sa paragraph 51, was VP Duterte ever Secretary of Department of Justice?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:59) No, Your Honor, Department of Education…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:01) Nakalagay dito, to recall, VP Duterte resigned as the secretary of the Department of Justice and she herself admitted that her relationship with the president has become toxic and she would imagine her strangling him and cutting off her head.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:14) That’s typo, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:16) That’s not a typo. A typo means yung department naging depart. Department of Justice and Department of Education are two different things.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:27) Ang alam namin… Sorry po.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:30) Yes, sir.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:30) Yeah, Department of Education ang alam namin.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:33) Yeah, so, kasi… I just filed my counter-affidavit sa Ombudsman eh. About yung obstruction of justice. Ilang beses ko kailangang basahin. Kasi nga, pag may mali, pinirmahan niyo na sinasabi nyo. But anyway, going back to the condition, you mentioned the case of SPO2 Jamaca.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:51) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:52) But isn’t it true that the Lis Mota of that case was really Res Judicata and double jeopardy. Meaning, hindi tinake up ng Supreme Court whether or not a condition.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:02) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:03) Di ba?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:04) Opo.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:05) So, that wasn’t on point. Kasi I was going to ask, is there a difference if the condition is legal or illegal? So, halimbawa kapag sinabi ko sayong kapag natanggal akong Senate President, patatanggal din kita. Okay. Unang una, legal naman akong tanggalin na Senate President.
(0:05:27) We always vote. There’s nothing there. But if illegal, o kapag pinapatay mo ako, papapatayin din kita. Is there a difference if the condition of why I will act or why I’m threatening you is an illegal act?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:45) Well, under the law, Your Honor, it says there that even the condition is unlawful. So, regardless of the nature of the condition…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:53) Yes, sir. I want to get into your mind when you sign this because mga medyo noble yong case [na] ‘to for me. Even as a lawyer, I have to do more research and see anong ibig sabihin nitong grave threats.
(0:06:10) Because you keep mentioning, we keep mentioning here that this is the second highest official in the land. And therefore, pag-thrineathen niya ang Pangulo. But who was the Vice-President claiming na pwedeng magpapatay sa kanya?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:06:28) Again, Your Honor, yun po yung reason ba’t nag-issue kami ng subpoena.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:31) No… Sa reading niyo ng statement niya, sino tinutukoy ng Pangulo na mukhang mag-ooperate sa kanya ng Operation Romanov? Sinong pinagbibintangan niya?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:06:41) Well, una, kung ang pag-uusapan Romanov, Your Honor, ang alam namin na unang nagbigkas ng Romanov ay si Mayor Baste yata noong January 2024.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:52) Yes, that’s irrelevant. Ang question ko, in the mind of the Vice President, sinong pinagbibintangan niya na pwedeng magpapatay sa kaniya? You said the investigated eh. So mahaba na testimony niyo ni Agent Mark. So of course, kasama sa investigation niyo, Sino sa mind ni Vice President [ang] magpapapatay sa kaniya?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:07:18) Well, again, Your Honor, since wala kaming makuhang valid information,
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:23) No, hindi ba klaro sa video na ang pinagbibintangan niya is the first lady, the president, and the speaker of the house? Sabi niya, pag pinatay ako, patayin mo silang tatlo. So ang pinagbibintangan niya na magpapapatay sa kanya, yung tatlo.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:07:45) I cannot answer to that, Your Honor.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:07:45) Senator-Judge Alan kindly wind up.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:48) But you have to be able to answer that because you’re the one who investigated. And that is crucial. Why? Because part of your self-defense, so for example, if I know, na as a Senator-Judge, pag hindi ako bumoto one way or the other, papapatayin ako ng whatever, Chief PNP or papapatay ako ng whoever. So pag sinabi kong, pag ako pinatay, si ganito nagpapatay sa akin.
(0:08:19) And then, ang difference, I don’t usually give a threat na patayin mo rin. So could it be that actually that was the defense of the Vice President para hindi siya patayin?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:08:33) I don’t know the state of the mind of the Vice President.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:37) But you’ve testified all throughout this afternoon that you went into her state of mind.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:08:42) Based on the series of events, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:44) Yes, and based on her statement. And her statement and the series of events is nag-away sila ng administrasyon. And the series of events is that sinasabi niya: ‘Pag ako’y pinatay, ito tatlo ang papatayin nyo. Okay, last question. Kay Atty. Lopez, tinanong din ‘to ni Sen. Tulfo. At di ko na itatanong pero napahapyawan ni Sen. Erwin din ‘to yung… Yung sinabi ni…
(0:09:15) Attorney Lopez, sabi mo, even before kasi nangyari yun, nakausap na ni Vice President yung papatay.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:23) That’s the literal meaning of the statement.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:25) Yes. That’s the literal meaning. But did you believe her?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:28) Well, she’s the Vice President.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:31) So she also said freedom of expression. So you also believe her?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:34) Not based on the evidence that what we gathered.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:36) No. Okay. So I’ll stop there. But I’ll read to you. Sinabi niyo kasi [ay] sedition. Pero tignan niyo po yung page 25 nung sarili niyong affidavit ah. Si Princess Maui ang sinabi niya, “ano po ba ang pwede niyong gawing remedy para matapos na ito? Lalo na’t nagsisigaw na po ang taumbayan para what can they be remedy to finish this? Lalo nagsisigaw na po ang taong bayan na mag-people power na.
(0:10:04) So actually, I would consider ang nag-uudyok si Princess Maui. Of course, we can discuss people power but… Pero tignan niyo po ang sagot niya after yung sa pagpatay. Ang laban ay wala dyan sa EDSA ma’am.
(0:10:18) Wala dyan sa mga highway. Ang laban ma’am nandun sa loob ng palasyo. Yan ang problema. We appreciate yung expression niyo ng disgust, ang pagkamuhi, ang hopelessness kasi it reflects kung ano nararamdaman ng maraming milyon-milyon. Alam ko yan ma’am. Kahit saan ako pumunta ang sasabihin binoto namin dahil sinabi mo iboto namin. So if I look at that statement, parang baliktad. Parang sinasabi niyang huwag kayo mag people power.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:10:46) Actually, kung babasahin po natin yung buo, may sinabi siya na natutuwa siya sa ginagawa nila.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:54) Ginagawa nila na active, nagra-rally. Pero sa people power, eto yung exact. I won’t argue with you. I’m just trying to get into your frame of mind. When do you believe her and when do you not believe her? And what did you actually investigate?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:11:09) We based everything on the evidence that we’ve gathered.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:11:11) Thank you, Presiding Officer. Thank you, Mr. Witness.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:11:12) Thank you, Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano. Senator Judge Marcos thereafter. Senator Judge Aquino. Senator Marcos, you may proceed, ma’am, when you’re ready.
