PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:00:00) Senator Judge Alan Cayetano, you have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you’re ready.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:05) Mr. Presiding Officer, dear colleagues, susundan ko lang po yung kay Senator Risa, Senator-Judge Risa, Senator-Judge JV, at yung ibang nagtanong sa admission against interest. You stated this already, but just for the record, you viewed the whole video, right? The whole two-hour video.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:00:21) The November 23, sir. Yeah, one, one, isang beses, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:26) Isang beses lang?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:00:27) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:28) Okay. And how many times there has the Vice President made admissions against her interests?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:00:38) No, sir, ang tinutukoy ko pong admissions against interest doon sa November 26, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:00:43) No, sabi mo yung November 23 din na ayaw ng defense gamitin contracted, so yung kinausap, is also an admission against her interest, di ba?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:00:54) Hindi, sir. Ang sinasabi ko pong admissions against interest, yung November 26 video po, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:00) Na sinasabi niyang totoo yun at hindi niya sinasabi.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:02) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:02) Okay. So, doon sa November 23, may nakita ka doon na admission against interest?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:14) In so far as I’m concerned, na ni-reiterate niya.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:21) Hindi, not ni-reiterate. Siguro para malinaw, in your mind, as a lawyer or as an NBI agent, what is an admission against interest?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:30) Yun nga po, yung ine-explain ko po kanina. Ito po yung isang bagay na ginawa nang isang tao na…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:37) Hindi ginawa, sinabi kasi it’s admission.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:01:39) Sinabi ng isang tao na ikakasira niya but then instead of denying na sinabi niya yun, in-admit pa niya ito, ni-reiterate niya.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:01:51) Okay, very clear yan. And you and Agent John Mark Calilung said that the basis of the investigation was the November 23 video. The basis sa inyong affidavit of investigation sa file ng kaso is certain portions of the November 23 video.
(0:02:11) As well as other evidence. Sa November 23, ilan ang admission niya against interest?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:26) Ang sinasabi ko pong admission against interest…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:02:30) This is a new question. If you evaluated well the November 23 video, is there any circumstance in that video that you believe that the Vice President made admissions against her interest?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:02:50) Plain ho yung utterance niya doon, Your Honor. Yung nakita lang ho namin, yung utterances niya. Insofar as I’m concerned, yung admission against interest nangyari noong November 26.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:00) Mr. Witness, sagutin niyo na lang ako. Lahat ng admissions are utterances.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:08) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:09) Okay, admissions is verbal. Hindi ito yung parang admission sa court. Pwede mo i-admit yung documentary evidence, pwede yung object evidence, pwede yung statements. When we talk about admissions against interest, especially in context of what we’re talking about, may statement na laban sa interest niya.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:26) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:26) So tinatanong ko dun sa buong video, meron ka bang nakita [o] wala? Yes or no lang yun. Meron or wala. O meron at wala, hindi yes or no. Kayo nag-evaluate nun eh. Meron o wala? Admissions against her interest.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:03:45) Yes, sir. The fact that na in-utter niya yun.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:03:47) Which one nga? So merong ilan, ano yun? A little leeway, Mr. Presiding Officer, kasi hindi natukoy masyado yung tanong.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:03:57) Senator-Judge Alan may proceed.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:00) So, which statement is that? That one you’re mentioning now? So, yung sagot mo meron.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:04) Ang understanding ko, sir, nung sinabi ko yan, I’m referring to the November 26, 2024…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:09) Mr. Witness, paulit-ulit tayo.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:11) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:11) Burahin mo na yung pinag-uusapan natin you’re referring to. I’m asking you a direct question. Sa November 23, meron o wala bang statements na you will consider in your professional as a lawyer and as an NBI agent in charge of investigating this, mayroon ba siyang state admissions against interest?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:04:34) Ang tinutukoy ko lang po again, Your Honor…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:04:36) No, I don’t care. I’m sorry. I don’t care, Mr. Presiding Officer, kung anong tinutukoy mo. I’m asking you a direct question. November 23 video. Mayroon o wala siyang admissions against her interest doon?
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE:
(0:04:50) Attorney Lotoc, yes, no, I do not know, I do not remember. We’re referring to November 23. Not 26.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:00) Yeah. I do not know, sir. Ang nire-refer ko…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:06) Don’t tell me na. So you do not know. Okay. When she said, kung papatayin ako, may kausap na ako, patayin niyo yung tatlo. Is that an admission against interest? Yes or no?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:19) Based on that utterances, sir? Yes, I think so.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:21) Yes. Oh kakasabi mo lang kanina, I don’t know. Ngayon, yes. Oh ano pa? Ano pa sa video na yun na admission against interest? Meron o wala? Or I don’t know?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:32) Yung utterances na yun, sir ang…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:33) Sir, bukod nga doon.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:36) To me, sir, yung utterances na yun, that’s admission against interest.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:39) Sir, klaro na yun. Tinanong ka na ng presiding officer, sagot mo, I don’t know. Tinanong kita ng deretso, na sa video, biglang yun oh. Biglang sasabihin mo na yung utterance na yun. So ang tanong ko na ngayon, bukod dun, aside from that.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:05:55) Sir, ulitin ko po yung sagot ko.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:05:57) No, you don’t need to answer. No, I’m asking you, aside from the utterance, the statement, na kung papatayin nila ako, patayin sila. Is there any other utterance during in that video that you would consider admission against interest?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:06:13) In so far as I remember, wala na po yun.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:14) Wala na, okay. When the Vice President said, yung pinamigay sa DepEd, isn’t that an admission against her interest kung may pinamigay?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:06:27) Siya po yung namigay, sir?
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:28) Ikaw ang nanood ng video, ikaw nag evaluate, ako pa magsasabi sayo kung anong laman ng video? Akala ko ba tinignan niyo ng mabuti yung video? Bakit hindi mo alam laman ng video?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:06:40) UDS.. ano yun? Sir, pwede ba pong tignan yung sinasabi niyo…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:45) No, no. So you do not know what the… ang laman ng video?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:06:48) Again, tinignan ko po yung video one-time. Ang nag review po ng video, yung agent ng case.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:06:52) Yes, but you’re the agent in charge. And you’re the one who filed the affidavit. Okay, next question. Nung sinabing mag-people power, tapos ang sinabi niya, hindi yun yung solusyon. Kung nag-people power, sino magiging presidente?
(0:07:08) Kung people power at mawawala ang Pangulong Marcos, sino magiging presidente?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:07:12) Siya, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:13) So, hindi ba admission against her interest din? Siguro sa interest niya maging presidente. Pero ang sinabi niya, what?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:07:19) I think so, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:22) Okay. So, I mentioned three. So, my next question. When you have an admission against interest, do you take the whole admission or you can cut it up into parts?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:07:35) Again, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:37) If my admission against interest is one sentence or one paragraph or three sentences, can you take one sentence and say yun lang yung admission and the two other sentences are not? Can you divide it up?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:07:48) I think it should be the whole, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:07:50) The whole sentence. So the whole sentence niya, nung sinabi niyang kung papatayin ako, is pinagbibintangan niya yung tatlo na papatayin siya. So if you say it’s an admission against interest and you believe it, you also have to believe na papatayin siya nung tatlo. The same thing, if you’re going to say na namudmud siya sa DepEd, ang sinabi niya galing sa First Lady yung pera. So you’re also going to have to believe that. So if you’re going to believe her, na yung ibang sinabi eh seditious, eh ngayon sinabi nga niya hindi solusyon ng people power. So as the evaluator, bakit hindi consistent yung evaluation niyo ng video?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:08:29) No, I think in so far as people power is concerned, I think sinabi niya ata na, yes ma’am, natutuwa ako sa ginawa niyo.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:08:36) Hindi. Let the record speak for itself. It’s on page 26. Same paragraph nung sinabi niyang papatayin no. But having said that, last question.
(0:08:51) Bakit sa cybercrime ni-refer? Bakit hindi sa anti-terrorism or sinabi mo merong intel group, bakit sa cybercrime?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:00) Your honor, may cyber aspect po kasi yung violation…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:02) Okay. What are the aspects of the alleged threat? One is the cybercrime grave threat. The other one is a possible assassination threat, right?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:15) No, Your Honor. Yung sinasabi kong may cyber aspect, the utterances was made through…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:21) Through cyber. And the utterance, in accordance with you, constitute great threat.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:27) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:27) But if she meant it, and if it is true, and if it is accurate, it’s also an assassination plot, isn’t it? Kung totoo yung utterance niya, na papapatay kita, may kausap na ako, hindi ba assassination plot yun?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:40) Maybe, sir, yes.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:40) No, hindi maybe. NBI kayo, kayo nagaano eh. May nagsabi sa presidente, papatayin kita. How much plane can that be as an assassination plot?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:50) That’s why, sir, may validation process…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:09:51) That’s why may validation. Kaya yung tanong ko, ano ba mas mabigat, yung assassination plot o yung cyber aspect?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:09:58) No, Your Honor…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:00) No, no. Deretso yung tanong. Hindi no, no, no. Anong mas mabigat? It’s a direct question. If you were NBI director now or whatever, you were PNP chief, dalawa ang iniimbestigan mo, yung cyber aspect na pwedeng cyber libel, pwedeng grave threat, at yung assassination plot, ano mas mabigat sa dalawa? Ano yung pra-prioritize mo?
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:10:18) Your Honor, yung cyber aspect, based on the law, mag-aadd siya ng one degree higher, doon sa…
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:25) So, magde-debate tayo kung anong higher, papabayaan mong mapatay ang presidente?
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:10:29) Kindly wind up, Senator-Judge Alan.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:30) Yes, I’m winding up. The point I want to make, Mr. President, is whether I was the PSC, the Executive Secretary, NBI, or an ordinary citizen, my first concern is wag mapatay ang presidente.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:10:42) Yes, sir.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:42) But instead of the NBI director taking it upon himself, giving it to the anti-terrorist or to the intelligence, sa cybercrime binigay.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:10:50) Your Honor, again, uulitin ko, yung utterances was made through information and communication technology.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:10:58) I hope if any one of my colleagues here become president, magbago yung attitude ng NBI. Mas importante pala cyber kesa sa buhay ng presidente.
WITNESS JEREMY LOTOC:
(0:11:07) Not necessarily, Your Honor.
SENATOR-JUDGE ALAN PETER CAYETANO:
(0:11:08) Thank you, Mr. President.
PRESIDING SENATOR-JUDGE ESCUDERO:
(0:11:09) Noted, counsel for respondent is recognized for his re-cross, if any.
